As we’re tracing through the old Atari code we’ve found a few (what seem to be) bugs. Should we fix? Or just leave as is?
What do you think?
Matt
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As far as I know, the subsequent C64 version had at least one bug fix–the glitch that allowed two human players to get AI players to buy Crystite in round 12. Some game play elements were modified as well (mountains shifting during Planetquake). It’s hard to know if these modified due to technical limitations or deliberate changes.
I’d say you would need to comb the C64 code as well. I assume you are disassembling machine code?
I would recommend fixing the bugs — doing so will augment, not detract from, M.U.L.E.’s legacy in my opinion.
Only if it enhances the game.
I would say fix the bugs. The program for iOS and android will have enough accidental bugs as it is especially in the early versions. No one likes unexpected gameplay.
Think of the bugs more like behaviour of the computer during gameplay vs. a function not working.
Maybe the bugs should stay intact to be true to the original…
Fix it please. If it is not meant to be a part of the game, it does not belong.
Bugs are mistakes. Make the product better than the original by repairing bugs.
If there is a question… Bugs after the release should be fixed as well.
I think it depends on the specific “bug”, some have been fixed in the C64 version, some not. If it’s possible for you, discuss it with the original programmers if they remember it as a bug or a feature. 🙂 maybe you can also open a poll for each of the bugs/features and let the MULE Fans decide wether to keep or fix? My personal opinion is that the C64 version should be the lead guide for MULE Returns, but probably if I had grown up with the Atari version instead of C64 I would think differently…
If a bug prevents the game from functioning as intended, it should be fixed. If it doesn’t harm the game function, and by removing it fans would miss out on a nostalgic ‘glitch’, then leave it be. As for the base code you are using, I had the C64 version, and remember the music and sound effects being so much better than the Atari version, but that’s probably a hardware difference that you wouldn’t be able to duplicate.
As I noted on Twitter, I’m a huge M.U.L.E. fan who still plays the game today on my Atari 800, and my take is simple: Fix the bugs.
I play the game, not the code. It’s the imagination behind the game that makes it so much fun for me, including the fact that while thought and planning are talents required to excel, classic joystick skills are important, too.
What’s your purpose for the project? Preservation or resurrection? If bugs broke the game fix them, but if they offered affectionate quirks, maybe have an option for “regular” or “new Coke” to allow players to decide
Well stated, Dr. Mike.
Fix them, bugs by definition are unintentional and thus should not be a part of the game if at all possible. Assuming the original developers would have changed it if they could you should be true to their intents if not their code.
Fix the bugs, however, moving mountains after earthquake could be thought of as legitimate given possible changes due to the earthquake itself, I always wondered if that was a bug or intentional.
First of all before giving an opinion, what are the bugs that you are facing?
Maybe we as a community should determine whether we feel these are bugs first before blindly saying keep them or get rid of them.
Good comments all!
Let me give you an example of two bugs and how we’re handling them.
a) Since these game were written in 8-bit assembler the math is sometimes a bit inaccurate (dropped bits etc.) We are not attempting to replicate 8 bit math. We’ve taken the algorithm and coded it as designed.
b) In another case, we think we may have found code written for a more sophisticated AI that would manage when the computer sells smithore/crystite. This code looks like it’s not being run. Instead a simpler routine is used. Changing this would mean the AI behaves differently…maybe it was left out for a good reason?
Hello! While I’m just some bloke on a couch, I’ll add an opinion.
a) Unless you see something critical to game play hinging on the 8-bit math quirks, I’d say fix it. It would have been the intent to code the math correctly in the original, I believe.
b) This one’s a bit trickier: I’d say leave the code that is currently being utilized in place. It is code that is known to work and the original team may have very well chose it for that reason. However, if possible, maybe you can activate it when you get the resources to do so and see if it does offer a harder level of challenge. If so, an later update or a “classic”/”the lost code” setting can be set by the end-user.
Do these bugs appear in the C64 version of the game? If not then you have a good case for fixing them.
About the bugs: If those are obvious bugs, fix them, like the last-round bug in the Atari version. The mountain moving during earthquake thing is obviously NOT a bug, so that should be kept.
About b) above: This would be a really interesting addition while still being authentic, being in the original code. Why not add a different “race” of Mechtrons that show this different behavior?
(Playing this game since 26 years, still love it)
I’ve been playing since it came out on C64 and now prefer 4 joysticks on Atari 800.
I agree with giving the player the option of activating the Lost Code when starting the game. I would also love it if the computer would drop to buyer in the 12th auction or just skip the timers altogether.
It would also be an interesting v2.0 to have everything the same except a 7×13 map and 8 players.
[Sorry for the late comment. I just found out about M.U.L.E. Returns.]
I tend to be a C-64 M.U.L.E. purist. My knee-jerk response is don’t change a thing. However, some things should change and can be fixed.
Anything where it is clear, something should behave a certain way but doesn’t should be fixed. Math bugs definitely should be fixed.
AI… AI players are notoriously bad and horribly predictable. Most anything that can improve their play should be utilized. If they weren’t a bug back then, they are most definitely a bug now.
What about having the default be “fixed”, but an option in the settings to switch between things? “Classic mode” and such.
Agreed, I’d even like a switch that reverts to the retro graphics if i’m feeling sentimental.
Why not have both? one could have a config screen, that allows the ‘bugs’ to be turned on or off.. Or even, in details, turn off bugs a, c, d & f, and leave b & e on..
Definitely must have a retro option— I still have the C64 and Nintendo versions!
I think each bug should have a switch (with good explanation) to turn it on or off in options of the game. Additionally it could have an option to save settings as several profiles.
I agree with the retro option! Then you make everyone happy!
Comma8, I watched your panel at the Commodore 64 con, via Youtube. I recall you mentioning finding a bunch of bugs. I was a little skeptical, but I’ve been stumbling upon some bugs lately at well!
It really does seem that a common mistake was forgetting about the carry flag. Some of these bugs would be kind of obscure to reproduce in modern 32 bit integer code.
Between your question here, as to whether to fix the bugs, and your statement on the video, making the light-hearted statement that perhaps Bunten was a genius with seeding these bugs, I still lean towards being faithful to most of these bugs.
Why? Take Loderunner, for instance. I used to think the AI was so buggy. But at the same time, the buggy behavior created a sort of life like prone to some error intelligence–the kind of behavior we see in other people, nobody is perfect.
In a way, these anomalies are the finger prints of the intelligence of Dan Bunten and particularly of Jim Rushing–the computer AI can almost be seen as extension of them.
So, with that said. I’d say fix any basic calculation based errors you find. But any errors in the AI, I’d say keep them and incubate them.
Um, sorry for being late to the party (just discovered what you are doing).
In my humble opinion it would help to know which consequences the bugs have, if that is possible. Without knowing the impact it is difficult to make an informed suggestion.
I have always been curious about the inner workings of M.U.L.E. after having read the manual for the first time: I knew that the game mechanics were very refined, but reading about the economy simulation just blew my mind.
Since you are intent on reproducing the exact game mechanics, rather than approximating them (as other M.U.L.E. reimplementors have tried), I believe it would be educational to learn just how the game mechanics work out, exactly.
ill go through the replies again … but somfar no one has mentioned the nintendo or the pc versions of the game. someone resurrected the game dor windows maybethat has information too.
i thinki have played all versions staring with atari (irata) 800 version.c64 nintendo pc and there is one or 2 vary similar games based on it.
but any ways i say have a few toggles. classic, new, ai, better ai etc. let user play and decide. it just kike trying out and finding which avatar / player they liked best. in facet imrecall thatbthere was a few cheats for some ( maybe nintendo is what i am remebering … unliited money, untilimited power less money no money to start etc)
doug
qa engineer / tester